Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improvemen

It's a broad topic, but it's essentially anything pre-gun era. Warrior Heroes, Red Sand Blue Sky, Rally Round the King for a start.

Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improvemen

Postby UrzaMightstone » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:07 pm

Hello everyone,

I am a new player/ex-DM. Now that life no longer allows for group games, I turned to solo gaming/co-op games and that is how I discovered 2 Hour Wargames and the Warrior Heroes line in particular.

I own Legends and Armies and Adventurers and 2 hour dungeon crawl, along with Distant Shores. I am also a HUGE fan of The Black Company series of books. As a result, I wanted to create/run a game with a small mercenary group going about quests/assignments while trying to stay alive in an unforgivable but rewarding world.

I made my band of 4 stars: Leader, lieutenant, healer and a mage. They are to be the backbone of the Company and they will lead the grunts to adventures and certain death- but riches as well.
BUT I run into the issue of the economy of the game and the pacing in the campaign. The entire 1 gold talos issue is meant to simplify book keeping- and I get it- but it also makes a day-to-day- economy difficult. While the 1 gold Talos system seems to be working for a month/turn military campaign, it does not work well with a mercenaries for hire plot where every day expenses are to be considered and the cost of a base of operations needs to be taken into consideration. I am trying to make this a day/turn game as I am simulating a difficult, grimdark world.

Which brings me to my main question: has anyone run a game with mercenaries using this system or a combination of systems? Because house rules are fine but tough to balance. For instance, I tried using 1 gold talos/30 divisions as if 1 talos was a symbol for 30 coins. But then it is tough to break down costs for every day needs in a way that money-as-a -resource remains something that can easily run out and should be used properly.

In the end, I am trying to make the game like the hex crawls of old- each decision has a cost and a risk associated with it while rewards can be lethal, and adventuring as mercenaries is lucrative but deadly.

Hope that makes sense and thank you for reading.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby stryderg » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:49 pm

I have not tried what you are suggesting, and you're looking for grittier game than I play, but please consider:
That talos, it's what's left over after the day to day expenses have been accounted for.
Diplomacy is the weapon of the civilized warrior.
-- A. T. Hun (Robert Aspirin)
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby UrzaMightstone » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:44 pm

Thank you for your reply.

I considered your suggestion and it does make sense as a concept. Talos can be the "net income" after all expenses are out. But in a deadly daily campaign that takes away the fun of "struggling to make it". Since I come from book-keeping intensive games (D&D) where the economy is vital component of the actual game play and needs to be balanced vs. the risks of adventuring, i crave for that same feel here. If items were priced by coins or subdivisions of Talos, the conversion would be easier. Now, 2 Hour Dungeon Crawl uses Bronze/silver/Gold coins but uses them as ways to improve character skills rather than bartering, lodging etc.

I am trying to come up with a balanced system- any input here would be greatly appreciated. When a system is developed, i will post it here in the forums.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby stryderg » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:02 pm

Fair enough.
Try this: Start with a modern budget for a month and add some adventuring items:
Groceries: $200
Cheap rent: $500 (around here, anyway)
Entertainment: $200 (figure $50 a weekend for hanging around in bars)
Weapon maintenance: $50
Taxes, fees, tolls, etc: $100
That's $1000 per month basic living expenses.
So you're 1 Talos = 1000 miniTalos (mt for short)
Now you just bill the adventurers normal modern prices for supplies, really awesome weekends, bribes, etc and track everything in mt instead of Talos.

Hopefully this is of some use.
Diplomacy is the weapon of the civilized warrior.
-- A. T. Hun (Robert Aspirin)
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby BOB » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:30 pm

I would just use the economic system from some OSR game like Sine Nomine's Scarlet Heroes, or Castle & Crusades, or even Labyrinth Lord.

Sine Nomine has a sci fi supplement called Starvation Cheap that is all about running a mercenary company. Re-skin somethings and just use that book's internal logic to make it a fantasy theme. That book is all about watching the bottom line and like all of Kevin Crawford's products, it has many random roll tables to set up characters and situations.

I often use his stuff with Warrior Heroes: Armies and Adventures to flesh out the bits we glossed over, if I want a more detailed or varies experience.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby Mehman » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:56 am

I'm going to show my nerdom here: I have an economic system in place for both Fantasy and Sci-Fi. I needed the crunch, maybe. Anyway, I used GURPS products mainly, but mixed in some OSR ideas/tables to fill in any gaps. (There weren't many gaps to fill. If you know GURPS, you know what I mean.) Anyway, here's what I'm using for currency (they have been named to my liking, but there is a basic standard symbol system in place, too; feel free to look up Electrum and Billon):

(P) Platinum Round $1,600
(gc) Gold Crown $400
(ep) Electrum Piece $100
(sp) Silver Penny (pl Pence) $10
(bp) Billon Half $5
(cp) Copper Farthing $1

From my research on Medieval economics (that doesn't sound nerdy), a Copper Farthing (cp), which equals $1, would buy enough wheat/flour to make a loaf of bread, or just buy the bread out-right. A good sword could be worth between $100-400 in my world; a whole year's pay for some professions. (This is based on civilian earnings, military pay, yeomanry, countryside men-at-arms, etc.) Mind you, the "$" symbol is only there for ease of use when trying to divvy-up coin after a dungeon crawl or whatever.

Of course, adventurers tend to also find other things in the Deep Darkness: gems, metal ingots, scrap precious metal, jewelry of various sizes that won't fit, etc. For that, I'd turn to your OSR/GURPS resources, or go to DriveThruRPG's site and search for helpful guides on pricing such items.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby Atomic Floozy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:22 am

Don't assume that a gold Talos has the same value across all of Talomir. If Talomir follows the same patterns as our own Medieval and Ancient world, then the value of currency could fluctuate dramatically from one locale to another.

For example, Valkae is modeled on Classical Greece. Being true to that model, each polis or city would mint its own currency, primarily silver. The common unit would be called the drachma, but it would have a different weight from city to city. Depending on the availability of gold, a gram of gold could be 10 to 15 times the value of a gram of silver. And lest we forget, the fees assessed by the money changers also varied.

You don't speak the Amazon's language? The money changer's eyes just brightened and the smile on her face is broader.

You guys can crunch numbers, I like THW's and Pathfinder's monthly cost of living expense mechanism for the day to day expenses.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby EasyEight » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:41 pm

Atomic Floozy wrote:...You guys can crunch numbers, I like THW's and Pathfinder's monthly cost of living expense mechanism for the day to day expenses.


Howdy,
I have been toying with an abstract light book-keeping economic systems based on the Increasing/Decreasing REP system. See below. Originally designed for Fringe Space, it didn't make the final edit in the book.

Using Increasing and Decreasing Rep to Get Things draft v2016.pdf
Draft economics based on increasing REP
(316.93 KiB) Downloaded 30 times


Basically you take the concept of your "Fame" points or accumulated REP as your "wealth" level. Within your wealth level you are assumed to have access to stuff -- a certain type of home, vehicle, weapons, etc. If you want something more than your level allows, you make a REP based test to see if you can acquire it and if that costs you a REP/wealth level.

Your wealth level changes based on events - upkeep for your Group, for your ship, losing people/casualties, damage cost wealth. Completing contracts, salvage etc increase wealth based on increasing/decreasing REP d6.

This could easily be swapped out using accumulated Talos, etc., and modified for the Talomir setting. Different type of units could have a wealth maintenence cost, cost to acquire, etc. You could also use a "Carousing" or "Employment" type Encounter to find and recruit units into your mercenary band.

Let me know if someone wants to collaborate on this and make a "Black Company" type merc adventure book for Talomir.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby Tekawiz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:19 pm

On the Four Against Darkness BGG page, somebody posted a method to use gold pieces to buy a house and furnish it. It's pretty cool and I can see using it in Talomir Tales - Distant Shores. It would be easy to convert by substituting the gold pieces for Increased d6.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby UrzaMightstone » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:30 pm

Hello everyone!!!

Thank you for the numerous replies, contributions and suggestions!

I must admit i am surprised, in a very positive way, from the number of replies and the politeness in this forum. Again, a big thank you to all!

I will review all the suggestions, play around with them and tinker some aspects and post a reply with what i came up here.

In the meantime, any and all ideas are still welcome. I have a long weekend ahead of me and i love experimenting with rules.

Best
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