Is the reaction system getting removed

It's a broad topic, but it's essentially anything pre-gun era. Warrior Heroes, Red Sand Blue Sky, Rally Round the King for a start.

Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby stryderg » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:55 pm

And that's why I've been a fan for so long. You can ignore tables you don't like or don't want to deal with. You can also add tables from other titles to get more crunchy. And none of it breaks the system, especially if you are playing solo.
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby Tekawiz » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:38 pm

Another system I like is in Great Hall Burning where movement is by section. It's quicker than moving units/PEFs by inches yet it still allows some unpredictability with the surrounding terrain that is up on the table. It's a good system for those of us who still like using a table top and terrain. Initiative and combat is based on the 2d6 rules.
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby Deathworks » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Hello!

stryderg wrote:And that's why I've been a fan for so long. You can ignore tables you don't like or don't want to deal with. You can also add tables from other titles to get more crunchy. And none of it breaks the system, especially if you are playing solo.


You are absolutely right.

I wanted to refine my point about the story told/importance of the reaction system for me.
I am very much interested in being surprised by the game when playing solo. The reaction system takes control of the companions of my main character away from me giving them room to be unpredictable. I mean, a missile user will fire at a distance, and a guy with a melee weapon will try to enter melee, that is predictable, so it doesn't matter that much whether I decide to do the obvious or have a table tell me.
But with the reaction system, the NPCs respond to the changing situation. And that is based on their skills/traits and finally their luck/spirit (dice) at that moment. A veteran is more likely to stand their ground while a newbie is likely to cower in fear. But both can change roles, giving me reason to think about what may cause their unusual behaviour. And by having the NPCs roll for their reaction, it becomes their action; whereas having it listed on the table of the active side makes their reaction no different than OOF, OD, or REP-1, an effect they "suffer" at the hand of the enemy.
That is what I meant with having life breathed into them.

BTW, I like the greater Encounter variety and the story progression system Talomir Tales added. I can see a lot of potential when combined with WHL.

I actually have also very little time (even less for typing things up), but I have now come to the conclusion not to care about when I finish as long as I enjoy the ride. So I am adding a lot of window dressing using additional tables (like Insta-NPCs), even if it slows down things a lot.

Yours,
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby Buffrockjaw » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:24 pm

Tekawiz wrote:Another system I like is in Great Hall Burning where movement is by section. It's quicker than moving units/PEFs by inches yet it still allows some unpredictability with the surrounding terrain that is up on the table. It's a good system for those of us who still like using a table top and terrain. Initiative and combat is based on the 2d6 rules.


Is that were the 3x3 table is divided up into 9 sections and you and the PEFs move from section to section? If so, yeah, I like that one too
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby Mehman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:09 pm

Tekawiz wrote:Another system I like is in Great Hall Burning where movement is by section. It's quicker than moving units/PEFs by inches yet it still allows some unpredictability with the surrounding terrain that is up on the table. It's a good system for those of us who still like using a table top and terrain. Initiative and combat is based on the 2d6 rules.

That's another title I love (because Vikings), but only if it's gotten the personal treatment. Moving section to section seems like one step removed from playing with just pen and paper. (Pen and paper games can be, and are, great fun. They pass the time on a flight or wherever else you can't bust out minis and a table. That's alright and all, but I like models.) Tweaking things seems to be in a solo gamer's blood, though I wish every title going forward didn't need such a huge adjustment.

I guess I have to remember that all things evolve and change, and not always to our liking.
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby Tekawiz » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:07 am

Buffrockjaw wrote:
Tekawiz wrote:Another system I like is in Great Hall Burning where movement is by section. It's quicker than moving units/PEFs by inches yet it still allows some unpredictability with the surrounding terrain that is up on the table. It's a good system for those of us who still like using a table top and terrain. Initiative and combat is based on the 2d6 rules.


Is that were the 3x3 table is divided up into 9 sections and you and the PEFs move from section to section? If so, yeah, I like that one too



That's correct. Movement is by section. So when combat occurs, friendly and enemy units have to utilize cover that is available or not available in that section. This can result in more variations for combat resolution vs the battle board. However if you don't have a table top or terrain, the battle board is a great way to quickly resolve combat.
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby THW » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:31 am

Yep, things are a bit different.
I've spoken with other minis and terrain manufacturers and they report a large dip in activity mainly because people don't like to paint anymore. That's one reason for Battle Board and counter sin the newer game.

The hobby is changing and before a two hour wargame was rare, Now people want them done quicker so some of the reaction tests have been folded into the Action and Shooting Tables. The compromise where the Rep 3 guy may not fire back on the old Received test is now built inot the shooting test by having a second Return Fire result causing a Duck Back. So the Rep 3 guy still suffers as he has a higher chance of missing, so getting fired at a second time and Ducking Back.

Yes, it is a bit different in that it focuses on getting the figures into action much quicker than before. The upside, as mentioned, is you can still take out rules from other sets and use them as you want to.

People are wanting different things now. Hope this helps.
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby stryderg » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:42 pm

People are wanting different things now.

That makes it tough on businesses in general and wargaming specifically. You have to create rules and minis that people want now. And you have to figure out what they are going to want next year and in the next five years so you can start creating those things.

I bought a copy of Starship Troopers (the board game from the 70's or 80's) last year. It was highly praised and 'revolutionary' for it's time. If I had gotten it in the 90's, I would have played it a lot. Now, I can't read through all of the rules and haven't even considered playing. (THW spoiled me.)
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby Atomic Floozy » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:14 pm

A disclaimer here: I like the new rules but hate the battle board, the bare battle board. I'm a visual nerd, I like to use painted minis and a bit of terrain. So, my battle board is a 2' X 2' one inch thick insulation tile. I don't always use the full 2 feet though. If the action is taking place in a closed space such as a tavern or treasure room, I don't use the full board, but if the action ia a raid on a camp of Gnolls or a confrontation with a giant forest spider, then I can use the full board and use the movement rules from some of the older games to play out the battle.

One of the neat things about the design of THW games is that you can use mechanisms from older rules to create the game you or your group wants to play.

I like the new rules and I like how open the design is to incorporate house rules and rules from older games.
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Re: Is the reaction system getting removed

Postby THW » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:00 pm

Just to clarify ATZ will have it all.
Reaction System and Action system. Both offer cool things about them and I'm not abandoning what has made ATZ famous.

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