Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improvemen

It's a broad topic, but it's essentially anything pre-gun era. Warrior Heroes, Red Sand Blue Sky, Rally Round the King for a start.

Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby UrzaMightstone » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:05 pm

EasyEight wrote:
Atomic Floozy wrote:...You guys can crunch numbers, I like THW's and Pathfinder's monthly cost of living expense mechanism for the day to day expenses.


Howdy,
I have been toying with an abstract light book-keeping economic systems based on the Increasing/Decreasing REP system. See below. Originally designed for Fringe Space, it didn't make the final edit in the book.

Using Increasing and Decreasing Rep to Get Things draft v2016.pdf


Basically you take the concept of your "Fame" points or accumulated REP as your "wealth" level. Within your wealth level you are assumed to have access to stuff -- a certain type of home, vehicle, weapons, etc. If you want something more than your level allows, you make a REP based test to see if you can acquire it and if that costs you a REP/wealth level.

Your wealth level changes based on events - upkeep for your Group, for your ship, losing people/casualties, damage cost wealth. Completing contracts, salvage etc increase wealth based on increasing/decreasing REP d6.

This could easily be swapped out using accumulated Talos, etc., and modified for the Talomir setting. Different type of units could have a wealth maintenence cost, cost to acquire, etc. You could also use a "Carousing" or "Employment" type Encounter to find and recruit units into your mercenary band.

Let me know if someone wants to collaborate on this and make a "Black Company" type merc adventure book for Talomir.



EasyEight- I like the system you posted, and i am definitely interested in creating a Black Company like system for this game. As most THW systems are compatible, our work could easily be adopted by others. We can post "drafts" here under the home brew rules sections and others can help us test the system. This is a great community and we can definitely make a good system.

For EasyEight, or anyone who is willing to collaborate, i can be reached at gdrakopoulos1984@gmail.com

Best
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby EasyEight » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:26 am

UrzaMightstone wrote:EasyEight- I like the system you posted, and i am definitely interested in creating a Black Company like system for this game. As most THW systems are compatible, our work could easily be adopted by others. We can post "drafts" here under the home brew rules sections and others can help us test the system. This is a great community and we can definitely make a good system.

For EasyEight, or anyone who is willing to collaborate, i can be reached at gdrakopoulos1984@gmail.com

Best


Cool! The book should have a couple of aspects to it, to bridge Talomir Tales with RTTK. Because you want to be able to adventure as the Merc captain, and manage merc contracts and battles. I'll send you an email.
Cheers,
John
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby watti3460 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:09 pm

I like the abstract system in "NEW MARKET ROUND". I find this can work well with some tweeks for food and ammo as well.

What is nice is that it is unit-less.

Say you have starting "Victual" dice depending on the rep of your leader. Every "month" of time you need to roll all your dice and any "6" means you lose a dice. Everytime you are hired you roll the dice also with the same results, but if you succeed mission, you get 1,2 or 3 dice additional depending on the difficulty of the mission.

Example:

Mercenary leader Ronan Coheed, rep 5 is camped out with his mercenary followers somewhere on the border for one month. At the end of the month he rolls his victual dice. The results are 2,5,3,3,6. Now he only has four victual dice left. Time to get some work.

Eventually he locates a patron and they negotiate a price. The combat mission seems normal in difficulty, so the agreement is if the mission is successful Ronan receives two victual dice. But to outfit your unit for the coming mission Ronan needs to roll this victual dice again. This represents spending to prepare for the mission before he gets paid. The results are all under "6" so Roanan can make a profit of all goes well.

At the successful end of the mission, regardless of the number of units lost ect., the patron pays the two victual dice to Ronan. Now Ronan has 6 victual dice to use to hire more troops and prepare for the next mission.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby watti3460 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:09 pm

I like the abstract system in "NEW MARKET ROUND". I find this can work well with some tweeks for food and ammo as well.

What is nice is that it is unit-less.

Say you have starting "Victual" dice depending on the rep of your leader. Every "month" of time you need to roll all your dice and any "6" means you lose a dice. Everytime you are hired you roll the dice also with the same results, but if you succeed mission, you get 1,2 or 3 dice additional depending on the difficulty of the mission.

Example:

Mercenary leader Ronan Coheed, rep 5 is camped out with his mercenary followers somewhere on the border for one month. At the end of the month he rolls his victual dice. The results are 2,5,3,3,6. Now he only has four victual dice left. Time to get some work.

Eventually he locates a patron and they negotiate a price. The combat mission seems normal in difficulty, so the agreement is if the mission is successful Ronan receives two victual dice. But to outfit your unit for the coming mission Ronan needs to roll this victual dice again. This represents spending to prepare for the mission before he gets paid. The results are all under "6" so Roanan can make a profit of all goes well.

At the successful end of the mission, regardless of the number of units lost ect., the patron pays the two victual dice to Ronan. Now Ronan has 6 victual dice to use to hire more troops and prepare for the next mission.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby EasyEight » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:53 pm

Interesting -- so keep it completely abstract rather than give the player control over units for RTTK, etc? Might be part of how to approach it. Maybe both approaches:

1.Use the abstract outcome based rules to focus on roleplaying and the story. Maybe two parts. Each mission for hire means the Star has to go through an Encounter, and then you also make a modified leadership REP roll to see how the Unit as a whole does (use Star success/fail as a Mod, etc.). That tells how how well or poorly your unit did, and then you use a mechanism like Talos, or Increasing/Decreasing Rep, or victualing to account for rewards/penalties.

*Do an Employment Encounter to get a merc job
*The Star resolves the Encounter
*Then you roll for the unit outcome for overall job success, modified by the Star Mission fail/succeed
*Apply rewards/penalties

2. Include the rules to tie your missions into RTTK so players can game out the battle if they wish to.

Comments?
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby UrzaMightstone » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:18 pm

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your replies and insights. Once again, i am impressed by this community.

Here is what i am working on now and an example (warning, i am an old timer and i use the word die rather than dice to refer to D#, but you can blame D&D for that):

Current focus: new economy system with light, dice based book keeping. Uses fixed dice to track gold spent on tasks and resource depletion. I have 2 systems in mind, a simple system and a more advanced system for the more detail oriented players.

The advanced system uses Task Cards that have a D20 attached to them (so far i came up with 4 types of Task cards: Travel resources, Training, Recruitment, Research) . Each task Card, such as travel resources, which represent rations and travel equipment or animals, starts at a very low number. But the mercs can invest by purchasing travel resources, and thus increasing the die value by 1, i.e. increase the D20 to a higher value, so from a 3 to a 4 etc. The cost to increase the resource die is not fixed as it can be modified for several turns by events, such as war, peace offerings and rebellions.

This creates an incentive for the mercs to always stock up whenever they can afford so to evade being stuck in an area when something really bad happens. I am preparing events that can affect the world, and that can be randomly determined in PEF like manner.

In addition, Items have a fixed die assigned to them. Every encounter a d6 check is made and on a 1-2 the item's fixed die is lowered by 1, so a 6 becomes a 5. . To simplify, i use D6s only, but D8, D10 or higher can be used. When the item die reaches 1 it must be replenished or repaired, depending on what it is. A shield will need to be repaired and an arrow quiver replenished for example. If the item is not replenished or repaired, it will run out or break and a new item must be bought.

Example: a contract.

It can have 6 random parts:


Who: employer's name, title and location

What: Basic description of the task

Where: the destination for the mercenaries- the location or collection of locations/route followed.

Opposition: enemies, antagonists or events.

Reward/Penalty of failure.


I think the PEF system is perfect for creating the opposition. The location can be determined randomly and it can depend on the method players use to track their travels. For example, a hex-crawl type can use # hexes away from the employer's location. That can help determine the Challenge Rating of the Contract and the overall reward. The number of PEFs/evens would then factor in the reward. So if a player had to fight 10 PEFs to make it to the destination, the amount of money offered would increase to reflect the work that had to be done. Mercs have to eat after all and they would have never encountered that resistance if it wasn't for the contract.

Illustration:


Player meets a Noble who was "kicked out" of his land by nasty rebels- or so he claims. He seeks revenge. The player's Company can do that for him- for a hefty price. Then the Player rolls on location table i.e. 2D6 to determine the destination in terms of distance. The player then rolls the Opposition table to generate a set of PEFs that will "reside" in that area. Based on what the Opposition is, i.e. a rebel army, the player will roll for involuntary encounters as normal, for every day of his/her trip, but the encounters will be generated from a new table rather than the "stock" WHL table. The new table will also include members of that rebel army that are attempting to stop the player from ever reaching the area. Of course, generated PEFS in the final destination, can randomly act: maybe the rebels expanded their operations, and now control more "hexes" or "areas". This will create a sense of urgency for the player to finish the contract before it becomes too difficult.


Also, to make things "tough" for the Mercs, each contract can have a "surprise" element to it: maybe the noble lied about the nasty rebels and they were actually a larger army or a wizard was involved. So, upon arrival to the destination, the player would roll against a unique table that would define what and if a secret element was "left out". If yes, the table would present a "twist" and specify how that affects the contract. Maybe more $ for their trouble or possible recruits, assuming o course the Mercs make it though and return to the noble.

More to follow soon. Once i have tables ready, i can upload here for people to test, and we will have a balanced AND fun system soon.

Best
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby UrzaMightstone » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:56 pm

Hello again,

To clarify: for simplicity, the Item specific d6 is assigned to the Party's leader, the star. The item durability/ammunition is tracked by this manner for the entire party. One die will be assigned to each "type" of equipment. So, all melee weapons are tracked by 1 die, all ranged weapons are tracked by 1 die, and all armor and shields are tracked by 1 die. This method uses max 3 D6s to track the condition of all items the party is using. A test is made after every encounter. On a 1-2, any USED item will be depleted by 1. Hence, if a party used their melee weapons only this encounter, then only their melee die will be lowered by 1. But if the party received damage AND used their Melee weapons, then their armor AND their used weapons will be affected by the -1 to their durability.

Again, this is still a concept that i am testing, and so far it makes the game interesting, because it makes the party dependent on settlements and provides incentives to always be prepared for encounters.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby Mehman » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:25 pm

I love the direction your mind is going, Urza! This item depletion/repair mechanic is really great. The Task Cards are also excellent.

Keep it up :D
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby Mehman » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:03 pm

Had a thought about ammunition. Here's the idea:

Every time the character rolls a 1 when shooting, they must roll an [Ammo] d6
- On a 1-5, the d6 is kept
- An [Ammo] d6 is lost on the roll of a 6
Each type of ammunition holder has an associated number of [Ammo] d6
- Larger ammunition holders have more [Ammo] d6; may have separate compartments
- Common ammunition comes in [Ammo] d6 bundles
+ Eg, 3 Steel Arrow d6 for a longbow
+ Eg, 1 Iron Arrow d6
- Special ammunition is marked off as used
+ Magic Arrows, Explosive Elixirs, Gunpowder Charges, etc
+ Will always come noted as 1d3(1d6) [Ammo] when found

It seems like there's a 2.78% chance of rolling a 1 and then a 6 (please someone tell me if my math is correct), so how many [Ammo] d6 you allocate to each ammunition holder is up in the air.
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Re: Warrior Heroes: Legends- Mercenaries and Economy Improve

Postby UrzaMightstone » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:09 pm

Hi Mehman,

Excellent idea! I used a similar concept for ATZ a few weeks ago. I made ammo to be an actual necessity and the survivors have to manage their bullets AND med kits. A zed attack and no bullets= survival horror.

This could work well on a fantasy campaign for mercs. Ammo running out during a fight is bad, but ammo running out when being chased by rebels in enemy territory- now that is really bad. It will make planning longer excursions to the wilderness more meaningful.

I played a few encounters and tested a simplified battle system as well.

I gave all units movement points based on class/armor type. Each movement point = one square or hex. But difficult terrain hinders movement. -1 in forests, -2 in swamps.

Melee with heavy armor: 5 points.

Ranged with light/no armor: 7 points

Casters/healers with light/no armor: 6

I also simplified range using zones. No need for a ruler. Close is within 1 hex or square, and melee weapons can strike within one square/hex. Near is 2-9 and all ranged weapons can always hit in this distance, provided the roll works out, and same applies for Magic. Far is 10+ and only magic is always reliable for that distance, provided there is a line of sight ii.e. no obstacles between caster-target.

This makes casters more useful. But i make the AI take the healers/casters out first if there is a choice of target.

I also added conditions:

Bleeding, poison, dazed, on fire. Bleeding will deal 1 damage every round, and a healer must help. Poison is deadlier and will do 2 damage every round. Daze silences spell casters- no spell casting unless they recover, similar to knockdown.

But conditions are not common. I am still testing how they effect the battlefield.
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