Dragons & the Undead

It's a broad topic, but it's essentially anything pre-gun era. Warrior Heroes, Red Sand Blue Sky, Rally Round the King for a start.

Dragons & the Undead

Postby ianjgow » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:14 pm

One of our number is making up a list for the Undead & although he has many of the usual units of Skeletons wielding spears or bows & those on skeletal horses, he wants to add skeletal Giants & a skeletal Dragon.

How would these fit in with the rules as they are?
I guess the Giants won't be much different, just adding Fanatic to the cost?

Dragons, I have a harder time coming to grips with.
Can Dragons be used as an adjunct to any lists?
The biggest bugbear (sorry) between us is that I said I didn't think Dragons could count Biological Weapon as they had no biology to produce the Dragon breath. He says it's all magic.
Now. I am aware that this is a weird conversation, considering what we are talking about. So, what I am asking is this.

Has anyone got any experience with this sort of "troop type"/fusion?
Does it work?
How does it fit into the world of Talomir?
Why am I wasting my time wondering about this?

Regards,

j
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Re: Dragons & the Undead

Postby THW » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:50 pm

ianjgow wrote:One of our number is making up a list for the Undead & although he has many of the usual units of Skeletons wielding spears or bows & those on skeletal horses, he wants to add skeletal Giants & a skeletal Dragon.

How would these fit in with the rules as they are?
I guess the Giants won't be much different, just adding Fanatic to the cost?

Dragons, I have a harder time coming to grips with.
Can Dragons be used as an adjunct to any lists?
The biggest bugbear (sorry) between us is that I said I didn't think Dragons could count Biological Weapon as they had no biology to produce the Dragon breath. He says it's all magic.
Now. I am aware that this is a weird conversation, considering what we are talking about. So, what I am asking is this.

Has anyone got any experience with this sort of "troop type"/fusion?
Does it work?
How does it fit into the world of Talomir?
Why am I wasting my time wondering about this?

Regards,

j


My personal opinion is it's a flying giant, no breath weapon for your reasons and as it's not a caster, no magic.
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Re: Dragons & the Undead

Postby ianjgow » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:52 pm

That sounds about right to me.

When working out the stats

Giants have TER; ENG; UD
Should an Undead Giant also have FAN?

Should an Undead Dragon also have FAN as well as FLY?

Should their REP/AC be the same as mortal Giants/Dragons? Others on the Undead list all have a standardised REP3 AC2

Regards,

j
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Re: Dragons & the Undead

Postby THW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:39 pm

ianjgow wrote:That sounds about right to me.

When working out the stats My take.

Giants have TER; ENG; UD
Should an Undead Giant also have FAN? It could but they don't take reaction tests anyway.

Should an Undead Dragon also have FAN as well as FLY?

Should their REP/AC be the same as mortal Giants/Dragons? Others on the Undead list all have a standardised REP3 AC2 I'g go Rep 6 AC 6.

Regards,

j
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Re: Dragons & the Undead

Postby ianjgow » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:42 pm

Who doesn't take Reaction Tests - Giants, Dragons or just the Undead generally?
Where is this info?

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Re: Dragons & the Undead

Postby ianjgow » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:53 pm

Also, AC6 gives both types of Giants a better AC than the AC4 they have when "in the flesh" - is this right?

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Re: Dragons & the Undead

Postby ianjgow » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:04 pm

Also, as far as I can see, no other army can field a Dragon from the start. If they are to be used as anything other than the Rogue Dragon you present in the rules, what criteria would have to be met in order to field a Dragon?
Would they have to be Summoned, presumably only by negatively Aligned Nations?

I worry that my colleague is trying to engineer what he thinks is a "super army" on the basis of the "you only get what you pay for & it's all fantasy anyway" argument. While I have some sympathy with his reasoning, I think it just leads to any army being the same as any other army. I prefer restrictions & lists because it means you have to fight to an army's strengths AND weaknesses & however fanciful our games are, they must adhere to some internal logic within that "universe"

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Re: Dragons & the Undead

Postby THW » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:13 pm

ianjgow wrote:Also, as far as I can see, no other army can field a Dragon from the start. If they are to be used as anything other than the Rogue Dragon you present in the rules, what criteria would have to be met in order to field a Dragon?
Would they have to be Summoned, presumably only by negatively Aligned Nations? That would be the way I'd do it but it would have to be a Gate Spell to closer match the Rep and AC of the dragon..

I worry that my colleague is trying to engineer what he thinks is a "super army" on the basis of the "you only get what you pay for & it's all fantasy anyway" argument. While I have some sympathy with his reasoning, I think it just leads to any army being the same as any other army. I prefer restrictions & lists because it means you have to fight to an army's strengths AND weaknesses & however fanciful our games are, they must adhere to some internal logic within that "universe"

Regards,

j
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